Nikon SB-28 fires only at the second frame

[lynxlynx.ch]

Dear all,

I'm a camera trap newbie and just bought me some material to create a DSLR camera trap:

Pelican Housing
Nikon D5500
Nikon AF 20 mm D 2.8 lens
2 Nikon SB-28
Pixel TF-322
PC Sync cable
Trailmaster TM-550

The whole setup is working except for the Nikon SB-28, i set them to standby mode but when the trailmaster triggers the camera the SB-28 wakes up at the first frame and fires only at the second frame. I haven't found out yet, how to solve this problem. When i put the Nikon SB-28 on the Nikon D5500 directly it fires at the first frame, and also when i put the Pixel TF-322 on the hotshoe. I guess the problem must be between Pixel - PC Sync cable and Nikon Flash. Is it possible that this scenario doesn't work with the PC Sync cable ? Only with the Nikon SC-26. Do i need some other Hot Shoe Adapter ?
Does anyone have this setup with Pixel TF-322, PC Sync cable and Nikon SB-28 ?

Thank you very much for your feedback.

kind regards

Lars

[-jeff]

Hi.....welcome to the forum.

The SB28 and other SB series of Nikon flashes make wonderful camera trap flashes. The sleep mode and quick wake up make it a natural for camera trapping.

There are two ways to remotely wake a SB28. One is with the PC port in the flash. The problem with this method is the first flash trigger wakes the flash and the second triggers the flash. Not exactly ideal for camera trapping. You either end up with a shot of the animal looking at the camera or the backside of the animal as it was spooked by the noise of the camera shutter.

The second method is providing the flash with a wake up signal when the camera shutter button is pressed half way down. On Nikon and Canon cameras there is a pin on the camera hotshoe that goes positive when the camera shutter button is pressed half way down. A wire needs to be run from this pin to the corresponding pin on the flash shoe.

There are a few wireless flash triggers out there that provide the wake signal. I have been using the Phottix Strato II with success. This is a really easy way to trigger multiple flashes.

If you are a "do it yourself" type, you can make your own cable. If not then there are some off the shelf commercial cables out there. Or you can have the guys at TRLcam.com build a custom cable for you.

Here are a couple wiring diagrams showing the connections between the camera and flash. One diagram for a single flash and one for multi flashes. Both diagrams are non-TTL.

When the shutter button is pressed halfway down, a voltage of about 3 volts is sent down the wake pin. This small voltage wakes the flash. When the shutter button is pressed all the way down, the flash fire pin is pulled to ground causing the flash to fire. The diodes are in the circuit to isolate the flashes from each other.

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Hope this helps. Good luck in your camera trap project and post the results here.

[lynxlynx.ch]

Dear Jeff,

Thank you very much for your helpful information. I didn't knew that.
I always thought i am doing something wrong :-)
OK. I have thought that a wireless solution could be less reliable than a wired one because more batteries, that could fail... but that could be a good solution for me to. On the other hand i am a bit of a "do it yourself" type and i guess i'll try to make my own cable.

Thank you very much, now i know how to go forward with this project and i'm happy to post the results here !

kind regards from Switzerland

Lars

[-jeff]

If you have two Pixel TF-322, you can take them apart and solder to the three pins you need to trigger the flash.

Here is a diagram of the hotshoe. The connections you want are Ground, Data (Q) and Handshake (SP). The Handshake pin goes high when the shutter button is pressed half way down and wakes the flash.


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One hint, do not apply heat too long to the pins while soldering. The pin will melt the plastic around it and the pin will be easily pressed through the plastic housing.

[lynxlynx.ch]

Dear Jeff,

Yes, i have more than two Pixel TF-322

That's really great ! Thank you very much :-)
I'll try that at the weekend

kind regards
Lars

[ArthurV]

That is some valuable information, Jeff.

[lynxlynx.ch]

I tried to follow your instructions, but unfortunately i couldn't fix this issue. I guess i did something wrong. That's why i created a visualisation

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On the left side is the original cabeling from the Pixel TF-322. Only X-Sync and Ground are connected to the PC Sync Port.
I soldered the Handshake & Data to the Ground Connection of the PC Sync Port. It is still working but always only from the second trigger. What am i missing ? Or what did i wrong :) ?
Maybe the chaining of my 2 Nikon SB-28 is wrong ? That's why i created a schematic for it...

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Any ideas ?

thank you very much !

Kind regards

Lars

[-jeff]

Ok, if I am reading your diagram correctly, you are still using the PC Sync connection? If so, that will not work. To wake and fire the flashes requires three connections and three conductors. The PC Sync connector only has two.

Maybe this image of the inside of the TF-322 will help.

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Connections:

Ground - Self explainitory

Flash Wake - When the camera shutter button is pressed half way down, the camera sends a positive voltage (about +2 volts) to this pin on the hot shoe to wake the flash.

Flash Fire - This connection on the hot shoe is pulled to ground by the camera when the shutter button is pressed all the way down and causes the flash to fire if awake. If the flash is not awake, the first shutter activation will wake the flash and the second will fire the flash.

I usually remove the PC-Sync connector on the TF-322 and run my three conductor wire through the hole. Then when done, use a little hot glue to hold the wire stationary so the soldered connections do not break free.

Also, notice on the TF-322 the ground connection is very close to the wake pin. This is a common problem with the TF-322. It will sometimes short the wake pin to ground and cause the flash to not wake.

[lynxlynx.ch]

OK. i think now i understood. thank you very much. So i need to organise another cable for using it on the other port of the flash. because i only have pc port cables ;-)

[-jeff]

That is correct. You need three conductors. I typically use Belden 8451 for flash cables. It has a UV stabilized outer sheath and remains somewhat flexible in cold temperatures.

[Kevininbath]

Hi All,

I'm using a Nikon camera and SB-28 attached via Nikon (3 core!) SC-27 flash cord to a Nikon SC-28 extension cord and back to the hotshoe - having the same problem and the flash connected via the 3 core SC-27 cable wakes on first frame and fires on the second if the flash is allowed to sleep.

So although I have three core cable it appears to carry the Ground, X-Sync and Data but not the Handshake, does that sound correct? It appears there is a way to rewire a Nikon AS-10 as documented here http://www.emmanuelrondeau.com/publications/dslr-camera-trap/ but that talks about making a connection to a canon camera not Nikon, so I think there is a need to isolate one of the pins at the Nikon camera with electrical tape if using the SC-27 as a final connection back to camera?

In the scenario you describe does the last flash still use the X-Sync to fire the flash?

Thanks

[-jeff]

The SC-27 and SC-28 does use three conductors. The problem is one of the conductors is connected to the Data(Q) pin rather than the Handshake(SP) pin. So, to make this work you will need to do a little re-wiring of the AS-10 and SC-28.

[lynxlynx.ch]

Dear Jeff,

Thank you very much for this valuable information ! - I have just checked with my local dealer and he can provide me this cable :-).
I also found some 3.5 mm Jack ports in my "spare parts box". I guess i could replace the PC Sync Port with these and make some customised 3.5 jack cable with your suggested Belden 8451 ?

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[-jeff]

It might be a tight fit. If it won't fit, you could make a short pigtail on each TF-322 with a female 3.5mm connector.

[lynxlynx.ch]

That's a very good idea. I'll make a short pigtail if the plug won't fit.
I guess i can make this cable work but i discovered now a much bigger problem: i can't get any 3pin Nikon cable anymore. Do you have a source where you can get this 3pin nikon plugs ? Maybe just only the plug ? i mean between the first flash and the second flash i would solder a cable with a 3.5 mm male jack on one side and the nikon 3pin connector on the other side....
thank you very much for your ideas :)

[-jeff]

The Nikon three pin connector and cable is getting hard to find. I use the Belden cable to make all my flash cables.

[lynxlynx.ch]

It took me a while to get all the material, but i have finally modified the TF-322.
As you guessed, my "old" 3.5 mm port won't fit so i organised new ones and followed your advice to make pigtails. I soldered a part of the belden cable to ground, handshake and data of the TF-322 and now the first cable is ready and working :-)

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thank you very much Jeff !
I now have only the second part left, to connect the first flash with the second one. I finally found some old SC-19 cable and will solder the the 3 pin plug to one side and on the other end another 3.5 mm jack plug.

[-jeff]

:) Looks good.

[lynxlynx.ch]

:)
Thank you very much again Jeff - Without your help i guess i would still trying to figuring out how the flash cables working,
I have finally finished the setup last weekend. Unfortunately i couldn't figuring out how to use the SC-19 cable, but it doesn't matter anymore. There is no need for this kind of cable anymore. I modified some more TF-322 like seen on the above post and soldered 3 7m long jack cables and a shorter 2 m.

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As the SC-19 cable didn't work i remembered that i hat this Stereo splitter for hearing the same music from one music Player on two headphones. I tested it with the two flashes and 3 cables and it worked :).
I bought an ABS box and created my own splitter with 4 3.5 mm jack ports, for connecting 3 flashes to it.

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I have tested the setup the whole sunday on the terrace and will put it back in the woods again next weekend.

So thank you again for your huge help !

Kind regards from Switzerland

Lars

[-jeff]

Excellent. Looking forward to some great images!

[swisscore]

I had the same problem with my YN-560 III and I do an electronic PCB to take 2 pictures per trigger, like this at least the second one is flashing

[lynxlynx.ch]

That's interesting. I tried to use Yognuo YN-560 III and 560 IV but couldn't ever wake them up again. Do you have some schematics ?

[swisscore]

I tried to follow your instructions, but unfortunately i couldn't fix this issue. I guess i did something wrong. That's why i created a visualisation

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On the left side is the original cabeling from the Pixel TF-322. Only X-Sync and Ground are connected to the PC Sync Port.
I soldered the Handshake & Data to the Ground Connection of the PC Sync Port. It is still working but always only from the second trigger. What am i missing ? Or what did i wrong :) ?
Maybe the chaining of my 2 Nikon SB-28 is wrong ? That's why i created a schematic for it...

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Any ideas ?

thank you very much !

Kind regards

Lars

On your schematic you shortcut some datas transfert wire, you will probably break your DSLR if you try for long time like this... (i think, without know how is made inside DSLR)

[lynxlynx.ch]

thank you for your feedback.
I already fixed that and i replaced the pc sync port with a 3.5 mm jack port.

[KennethW]

Hi,

I use Yognuo RF 603II for my 2-3 SB-28 flash setup. Nikon D200 / D3200
There the flash comes immediately upon the first frame. I modified the 603's to take bigger batteries for longer operatation time. They have worked well in rainstorms, snow and down below -15C in the winter.

[Viddis]

Hello from Norway.
For years, I've had the problem that only a Nikon SB-800 flash wakes up on the first image. It has been very annoying but has been solved by taking two photos in a quick order. Flash number two wakes up on the second picture. The batteries on the flash number one burn out faster than flash two, and it's not possible to use my D3200 because it can not be set to take only two pictures. The solution to the problem I found here, with three wires and Pixel TF-322. Thank you very much!
Marten. Two SB-800, some daylight and Nikon D700. 103

[-jeff]

Beautiful marten picture!! Glad you were able to figure out your lighting issues with the help of the forum and hope you post more images from Norway.

[KennethW]

I use Youngnuo RF 603 II wireless triggers since one and a half year. No issues other than the short battery life without extending it somehow. I soldered a connector to i so i now have several weeks or more standby time. I use 2-3 SB-28 with a Nikon D200 and a D3200.

Sometimes i alos use a SC-17 cord and that works for one flash.

[Zuppi]

Emmanuel Rondeau sells an eBook with excellent information about camera trapping in general, but also the description how to attach flash units in such a way that they wake up on the first shot. Its geared towards Canon camera with Nikon SB-28 flashes, but I guess it would be the same for other brands (except Sony NEX, as I tried recently, it looks that Sony does not have a 'wake-up' signal). I can highly recommend this eBook, it costs only a few Euros.

[Kevininbath]

The SC-27 and SC-28 does use three conductors. The problem is one of the conductors is connected to the Data(Q) pin rather than the Handshake(SP) pin. So, to make this work you will need to do a little re-wiring of the AS-10 and SC-28.

Dear Jeff,

After having battery and sync issues with my wireless triggers so I've taken a stab and rewiring the SC-17 connector and SC-27 three core cable to carry the wake signal, essentially using the red 'quench' pin in the SC-27 as the wake and moving the 'quench' red wire in the SC-17 connector onto the 3-pin socket. I tested the setup with my multimeter and all connections looked good, and after connecting the flashes to the camera both triggered on first fire as expected.

However, leaving the trap overnight the flashes stop working. I think the second (last flash) goes to sleep and doesn't wake - worst still it prevents the first flash firing because if I turn the secondary flash off the main flash will fire again. If I turn everything off and back on it all works.....goes to sleep and both flashes wake etc.

I was hoping the hardwired system would be more reliable! Any thoughts please.............here is one of my successful shots with the Hahnel Captur wireless triggers, just too many batteries to fail.

Thanks.

[-jeff]

Hi Kevin......It almost sounds like you left the isolation diodes out of the circuit. Did you use the wiring diagram on the first page of this thread?

[Kevininbath]

Hi Kevin......It almost sounds like you left the isolation diodes out of the circuit. Did you use the wiring diagram on the first page of this thread?

Hi Jeff,

No I haven't used the isolation diodes (yet!) - when you said the diode isolates the other flashes if one fails I wasn't sure if you meant permanently fail (as in die completely) or just temporarily stop working?. Having brought the whole set up inside for the last two days and nights it has been working just fine.........it's getting damp at night here outside now and I did wonder if moisture was affecting the flashes as they are not in sealed boxes now?

On another matter if I wire exactly as Emmanuel's book (using the 3 pin port in the SB-24) that also works but the last flash seems to stay awake, I think one of the pins on the camera hotshoe needs masking off but I'm not sure which one, any ideas?

Many Thanks

[-jeff]

Give the diodes a try.

I don't have the Emmanuel book so I can't answer your second question.

[Kevininbath]

For the benefit of others, taping over the unused pins on the camera hotshoe seems to stop the flashes cutting out over night. I can't explain why this seems to work but it reflects Tom Mason's comments in his camera trap video where he refers to Emmanual's book and Nikon cameras.

Camera trap has been running fine for a fortnight now no problems.171 172

Thanks all.

[DanielVandenBroeck]

Hi Kevininbath, could you share pics of the things you taped off ? I was also reading TOm Mason comments on his YouTube channel. He shows, not very clear, where he tapes off the ground pin on this hotshoe that sits on the camera

Thanks

[Broco88]

Hi Kevin, great Fox image. So the only other thing you had to do to your Nikon set up other than blank off the unused ports is rewire the AS-10?

King regards,
Tom

[Kevininbath]

Hi Tom / Daniel,

Sorry I've not been here for a while, hopefully this rough sketch illustrates my solution.

The flash-1 hotshoe connector (on the end of the SC-17) was fairly easy to re-solder and move a wake signal onto the unused quench output pin for the SC-26/27 socket and cable to flash-2. However, the quench and ready pins back to the camera are still connected at flash-1 inside the SC-17 hotshoe hence electrical tape to isolate these at the camera hotshoe. Re-soldering the cable and pin inside the AS-10 for flash-2 was a bit tricky, the plastic around the pin melts very easily but the same logic here - ie transfer the incoming trigger/ground/wake signals carried by the SC-27 sync cable to the correct pins on the SC-10 hotshoe.

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Another fox captured using this set-up
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[-jeff]

Thanks for the update Kevin. Looks like you have it figured out.

[Janis]

Hi, I am a new to cameratraping :)
Have read all info, but still have not understood the problem.
Wanted to have a simple system, but looks like I have jumped in problems :D
So the problem is that second flash SB28 is not firing with first shot but in first shot it wakes up from stand by. If shutter is halfprest it wakes up first flash, but second is not waking up.
After first shot, when both SB 28 are waked up, both are firing
So setup i use is nikon d3300 with SC 28 cable to first flash, from first flash to second goes SC26 multi-flash cord and enters in AS 10.
is there some simple way to wake up second flash for first shot?
Thank you a lot for helping

[-jeff]

Hi Janis


A couple things to try......switch the flashes to see if the problem follows the flash. If it does then you have a problem with one flash. If the problem happens when you have either flash connected to the SC26, then the problem is in one wire in the SC26 cable or in the AS10.

When you half press the shutter, the camera sends about 3 volts to the wake pin on the SB28. If you have a volt meter, ground the black lead and touch the positive lead to the wake pin on the SC28 and SC26. Half press the shutter and you should see the same voltage on each wake pin. If not, take the AS10 apart and make sure the wires are all connected.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you figured out.

[Oki_]

Hello camera trappers,

I use Canon 40D camera with Nikon SB-24 flash and I connect them with Canon TTL cable, which means I have no "wake-up" function. So the first frame is always black. As suggested here, one of the options is to somehow make a custom cable to also transmit half-press signal. But a wireless system is more tempting for me. Did somebody tested cross-system compatibility of YONGNUO RF-603 II transceivers? More specifically, a device for Canon as a transmitter and for Nikon as a receiver. According to specifications, it is also transferring the half-press signal, so I can not see why it should not work together, but I would rather have it tested before buying. Thank you.

[-jeff]

The Yongnuo works well with a Canon TX and a Nikon RX.